Father Spitzer’s Universe – 2020-03-11 – Liturgy of the Eucharist Pt. 2


[MUSIC]>>Doug: AND WELCOME TO ONCE AGAIN “FR. SPITZER’S UNIVERSE” AT THE VERY BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. I’M DOUG KECK AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE THROUGH LENT, DON’T FORGET, YOUR QUESTIONS ARE IMPORTANT. ESSENTIAL IN FACT, YOU CAN EMAIL, FACEBOOK, TWEET US, AND FOR ALL THINGS FR. SPITZER, YOU CAN GO TO THE magiscenter.com AND WE’RE GOING THROUGH crediblecatholic.com THIS WEEK, DEVELOPMENT OF THE FIVE MAJOR PARTS OF THE MASS, LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST IS WHAT WE HAVE BEGUN. WE’LL CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON THAT, AND WILL TODAY. DON’T FORGET, EWTN PUTS OUT GREAT BOOKS, BOOK OF THE MONTH, OVERCOMING THE EVIL WITHIN BY FR. WADE MENEZES, A POPULAR PREACHER AND SPOKESPERSON FOR THE MERCY FATHERS, OVERCOMING THE EVIL WITHIN. AND THAT’S PUBLISHED BY EWTN, ewtnRC.com. AND WE’RE PROUD ON EWTN TO TURN ONCE AGAIN TO THE WEST COAST TO THE ONE AND ONLY FATHER SPITZER. HOW ARE THINGS GOING?>>Father: I’M DOING GREAT, DOUG. ALTHOUGH, BETTER NOW BEING WITH YOU. THANK YOU.>>Doug: AND I THINKING ALWAYS, ALWAYS OUR AUDIENCE FEELS THAT WAY ABOUT YOU. THAT YOU ARE KEEPING YOUR HEALTH AND PROTECTED. WE’RE NERVOUS WHAT’S GOING ON OUT THERE. HOW ARE YOU DOING?>>Father: I’M DOING VERY FINE. THERE WAS MAYBE ONE OR TWO CASES IN ORANGE COUNTY, BUT ALL IS WELL OUT HERE, DOESN’T SEEM TO BE REALLY SPREADING AT ALL.>>Doug: SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, SAY A PRAYER FOR ALL OF US. AND KEEP OUR INTENTIONS ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE SUFFERING.>>Father: YOU BET. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR THE MANY BLESSINGS THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US, WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT UPON US, TO INSPIRE US, GUIDE US, AND PROTECT US SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO AND SAY WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, CHURCH, AND KINGDOM. LOOK AFTER ALL OF THOSE SUFFERING FROM THE OUTBREAK OF THE CORONAVIRUS AND OTHER ILLNESSES, BRING THEM BACK TO FRUITION IN THEIR HEALTH, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN.>>Doug: AMEN. AND OF COURSE, WHAT’S GREAT ABOUT MOTHER’S CREATION OF EWTN IS THAT FOR SO MANY PEOPLE WHO CAN’T GET OUT OR SHOULDN’T BE GETTING OUT, IF IT CONTINUES THE WAY IT IS, WE’VE GOT OBVIOUSLY, THE MASS, ROSARY, AND AS WELL AS WONDERFUL PROGRAMS LIKE YOUR PROGRAM THAT WE PRESENT TO PEOPLE WHICH THEY CAN LISTEN TO AND REACH IN THEIR OWN HOME IF THEY FIND THEMSELVES, UNFORTUNATELY, IN SOME QUARANTINE SITUATION. THAT’S SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO. THERE’S A LOT OF NEWS OUT THERE AND WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, SO, LET’S GET TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS SO WE CAN CATCH UP. THIS ONE WAS TO ME, I GUESS, BECAUSE THEY ARE BLAMING ME WHICH IS APPROPRIATE. [LAUGHTER] DEAR MR. KECK, ON FATHER SPITZER’S UNIVERSE RECENTLY YOU WERE DISCUSSING THE PROBLEM OF PEOPLE BEING ADDICTED TO SOCIAL MEDIA. THAT SEEMS AT ODDS WITH YOUR POLICY OF ONLY ACCEPTING QUESTIONS ELECTRONICALLY. MY HUSBAND AND I TRY TO LIVE A SIMPLE, QUIET LIFE. NOT HAVING A SMART PHONE OR THE INTERNET HELPS US DO THAT. ALSO, THOSE THINGS ARE COSTLY TO HAVE. I OCCASIONALLY HAVE A QUESTION I WOULD LIKE ANSWERED ON THE PROGRAM BUT AM EXCLUDED BECAUSE OF YOUR POLICY. PLEASE RECONSIDER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT PROGRAMMING. IT HAS BEEN THE MAIN SOURCE OF MY EDUCATION IN THE FAITH SINCE MY CONVERSION IN THE EARLY 1990’S. SINCERELY, MARVEL. THAT’S MARVELOUS. YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ELECTRONICALLY BECAUSE THAT’S HOW MOST PEOPLE DO IT. AND PHONE CALLS NOT AS MUCH BECAUSE IT TAKES MORE PEOPLE TO MAN THE PHONES, AND TAKES MORE TIME TO HAVE IT INTRODUCED INTO THE SHOW. AND SOME OF THE OTHER SHOWS THAT FATHER MITCH AND JIM AND JOY DO HAVE THAT FEATURE, BUT WE WANTED TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS WRITE TO US, NOT ELECTRONICALLY, WRITE TO US RIGHT HERE AT EWTN IN CARE OF “FR. SPITZER’S UNIVERSE.” CERTAINLY, WE’RE HAPPY TO HAVE YOUR QUESTION TAKEN UP JUST AS WE DID WITH THIS PARTICULAR ONE WHICH WAS SENT TO ME AS A LETTER. SO, WE WILL ANSWER LETTERS VIA LETTER, TOO, IF THAT’S YOUR PREFERRED WAY OF GETTING IN TOUCH WITH US. AND ALSO, YOU CAN WRITE DIRECTLY TO FATHER SPITZER TO HAVE QUESTIONS FEATURED ON THE SHOW, TOO. IS THAT RIGHT?>>Father: YOU BET.>>Doug: I WANTED TO CLEAR THAT UP. OKAY. HERE’S THE NEXT QUESTION. HELLO, FR. SPITZER AND DOUG. I KNOW THAT FR. SPITZER HAD SOME TREATMENT IN THE HOPE OF REGAINING HIS PHYSICAL SIGHT. I SPECIFY PHYSICAL BECAUSE I THINK FR. SPITZER SEES MORE AND BETTER THAN THOSE WHO HAVE THEIR EYESIGHT. I THINKING A LOT OF US WOULD SAY THAT, HE’S TOO HUMBLE TO SAY THAT. MAY I ASK AN UPDATE ON THIS? I HAVE MUCH LOVE AND ADMIRATION FOR YOU BOTH. THANK GOD FOR FR. SPITZER AND THANK YOU, EWTN. LINDA>>Father: LINDA, THANK YOU FOR ASKING. I’M TRYING TO WAIT FOR A CRISPER INJECTION, YOU MAY KNOW THAT CRISPER IS A VIRAL VECTOR, A A VIRUS THAT IS TRAINED TO GO FIND A PARTICULAR CELL, IN THIS CASE, IN MY EYES, AND TO MAKE A LITTLE ALTERATION IN THE DNA SO THAT A PHOTO TRANSMITTER CELL WILL BECOME PHOTO TRANSMITTER CELL LIKE A ROD OR A CONE SO THAT I CAN SEE AGAIN. RIGHT NOW, EXPERIMENTALLY, THEY STILL HAVE TO MAKE THAT VIRAL VECTOR AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE A CRISPER MOLECULE. BUT ALL OF THAT IS POSSIBLE. THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE, BEEN TESTED ON ANIMALS. THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE EVENTUALLY SOME PHASE 1 CLINICAL TRIALS IN THE UNITED STATES AND I’M HOPING THAT I AM PART OF THE PHASE 2 CLINICAL TRIAL. I HOPE MAYBE AT THE END OF THIS YEAR OR MAYBE AT THE BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO GET THAT INJECTION. AND OVER THE COURSE OF THREE MONTHS, A LARGE NUMBER OF MY CONES WILL GROW BACK. SO, THAT’S BASICALLY THE UPDATE. WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. BUT CRISPE IS A VERY WELL KNOWN TECHNIQUE THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR A VARIETY OF THINGS. BUT NOW, IT MAY BE HELP WITH RIT NAL CELLS.>>Doug: YOU SAID VIRUS, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT? THIS IS A VIRUS?>>YEAH, RIGHT.>>Doug: AND HERE WE’RE DEALING WITH A VIRUS TODAY AND CAUSES US DIFFICULTY AND IN ANOTHER WAY, A VIRUS CAN DO GOOD, ANOTHER KIND OF A VIRUS CAN DO GOOD.>>Father: ABSOLUTELY. YEAH, THERE’S ALL KIND OF VIRUSES THAT DO GOOD. AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY PROGRAM A VICAR US — VIRUS TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. VECTOR MEANS IT CAN BE TARGETED FOR A PARTICULAR CELL AND YOU CAN IMPLANT DNA MOLECULE IN THE CELL. SO, THERE YOU GO. AND IT’S JUST AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN DO.>>Doug: GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS WITH ALL THAT HAS BEEN CREATED. HERE’S OUR NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FR. SPITZER, LOVE YOUR SHOW. WHAT DOES JESUS MEAN WHEN HE REFERS TO HIMSELF AS THE SON OF MAN? IS HE NOT THE SON OF GOD? GOD BLESS, MIRANDA.>>Father: YES, MIRANDA, JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND YOU WILL SEE THAT TITLE AND IT’S CALLED A TITLE. IT’S USED BY THE CHURCH AFTER JESUS’ RESURRECTION. JESUS DOES CALL HIMSELF THE EXCLUSIVE SON OF THE FATHER TO HIS — THROUGH HIS DISCIPLES. BUT WHEN HE’S IN A LARGE AUDIENCE AND OBVIOUSLY, IF HE CALLED HIMSELF SON OF GOD, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN STONED ALMOST INSTANTLY. AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF HIS MINISTRY OR HE WOULD HAVE DEFENDED HIMSELF WITH SOME KIND OF MIRACULOUS POWER. AND JESUS DIDN’T WANT TO DO THAT. HE WANTED PEOPLE TO RECOGNIZE WHWHO WAS THROUGH HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. SO, HE USED INSTEAD ANOTHER TITLE CALLED THE SON OF MAN. AND HE USED IT — USES IT IN AN APOCALYPTIC WAY SO THE PHARISEES AND DESCRIBES RECOGNIZE IT RIGHT AWAY. GO TO DANIEL 7:11 THROUGH MAYBE 30, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THE SON OF MAN DISCOURSE. AT ONE POINT, I THINKING AROUND DANIEL 7:21, I’M NOT ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, BUT WE’LL LOOK IT UP IN A LITTLE WHILE. BUT IN DANIEL 7:21, THE SON OF MAN WILL COME ON HIS THRONE DEFINITIVE JUDGE OF THE WORLD. RIGHT? SO, THE APOCALYPTIC SON OF MAN SENT FROM HEAVEN. NOW, JESUS CALLS HIMSELF, YOU KNOW, THAT TITLE. AND OF COURSE, THAT GETS THE PHARISEES AND THE SCRIBES ON EDGE. AND WHY NOT? BECAUSE WHAT IS HE SAYING THERE. HE’S BASICALLY SAYING, YOU KNOW, I’M GOING TO BE THE APOCALYPTIC DEFINITIVE JUDGE OF THE WORLD AND I’M RIGHT HERE ON THE JUDGE OF THE FATHER, SENT JUDGE OF THE WORLD SENT BY THE FATHER. ALTHOUGH YOU CAN USE SON OF MAN IN A MUCH MORE MUNDANE SENSE. YOU CAN ALMOST, LIKE, A SON OF A MAN, A PERSON, A HUMAN BEING. SO, THE PHARISEES ARE GOING, OKAY. WHAT DOES HE MEAN HERE, THE SON OF MAN WILL DO THIS AND THE SON OF MAN WILL DO THIS. AND JESUS, WHEN HE’S SPEAKING OFFICIALLY DOES NOT SAY I. HE SAYS, THE SON OF MAN WILL DO THIS. THE SON OF MAN HAS NOWHERE TO LAY HIS HEAD. AND WHEN HE SPEAKS IN THAT OFFICIAL WAY, NOT A PERSONAL WAY WITH THE DISCIPLES AND THINGS, HE DOES USE THAT TITLE ALL THE TIME. BUT HE ABSOLUTELY MEANS IT IN AN POCK LIAPOCALYPTIC WAY AND WHENE SAYS, THE SON OF MAN HAS NOWHERE TO LAY HIS HEAD. HERE’S THE DEFINITIVE JUDGE OF THE WORLD SENT FROM HEAVEN, WITH THE ANGELS, TO COME DOWN TO EARTH, THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS IN THE DANIEL REFERENCE. AND THERE IS HES, NOWHERE TO LAY HIS HEAD. THERE HE IS. THE IRONIES ARE IN ABUNDANCE. THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS. ABSOLUTELY, IT’S REFERRING TO HIS DIVINE PREROGATIVE AND REFERRING TO HIS DIVINE ORIGIN, AND REFERRING TO HIS DIVINE SONSHIP, AND REFERRING TO BEING SENT BY THE FATHER, AND REFERRING TO HIS BEING THE DEFINITIVE DIVINE JUDGE.>>Doug: VERY GOOD. AND HERE WE ARE IN LENT SO THIS QUESTION TIES IN. HELLO FR. SPITZER, I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT EVENTS WHEN JESUS WAS ALONE AND HOW THEY WERE RECORDED IN THE BIBLE. WHEN HE WAS ALONE IN THE DESSERT FOR 40 DAYS AND TEMPTED BY THE DEVIL, NO ONE WAS THERE TO SEE IT. HOW DID THAT END UP IN THE BIBLE? THANK YOU, DIANE>>Father: DIANNE, THE ONLY THING WE CAN ASSUME IS THAT HE TOLD HIS DISCIPLES OR HIS MOTHER. THAT’S WHAT WE ASSUME. AND WITH RESPECT TO THE TEMPTATIONS, YOU KNOW, I’M SURE JESUS RELATED THAT IN SOME WAY TO HIS DISCIPLES. IT’S THE DEFEAT OF SATAN WOULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, THAT’S THE FIRST PRIMARY, DEFINITIVE DEFEAT OF SATAN, THE COMING IN THE DESERT. AND THE ABSOLUTE AND FINAL DEFEAT OF SATAN, AND THE RESURRECTION AFTER THE CROSS. BUT INITIALLY, JESUS RIGHT AFTER HIS BAPTISM, RIGHT, THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVES HIM TO GO INTO THE DESERT AND THAT’S WHERE HE GETS THIS POWER OVER SATAN WHEN HE RESISTS HIM AND HE OVERCOMES HIM. AND SATAN KNOWS BASICALLY, IF I CAN USE THE TERM LIGHTLY, HE’S A DEAD DUCK. HE KNOWS THAT HE’S BASICALLY IN TROUBLE AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE SPIRITS IMMEDIATELY FEEL THAT HE HAS POWER OVER THEM NOW. THAT HE REALLY IS THE SON OF GOD WHO HE PROCLAIMED HIMSELF TO BE. THAT HE DOESN’T FALL FOR ALL THE TRICKS BECAUSE THE SON OF GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED. THE DEVIL KNOWS HE’S THE SON OF GOD AND STILL TRIES TO TEMPT HIM AGAINST GOODNESS AND LOVE. BUT HE’S NOT JUST PERFECTION IN BEING, HE’S PERFECTION IN GOODNESS, TRUTH, AND IN LOVE. ONCE THAT HAPPENS, HE HAS TO TELL THE DISCIPLES, YOU KNOW, I’VE ALREADY DEFEATED SATAN IN THE DESERT AND NOW I’M GOING TO, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE ME DOING THESE EXORCISMS AND THEY KNOW WHO I AM BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY DEFEATED THEIR MASTER, SATAN HIMSELF. THAT’S WHY THEY CONTINUE TO SAY, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE, YOU ARE THE SON OF THE CHOSEN ONE, YOU ARE THE SON OF GOD. AND JESUS SAYS, OKAY, BE QUIET. HE DOESN’T WANT THEM TO SAY WHO HE IS. HE STILL WANTS TO HAVE THEM IDENTIFY HIM FROM HIS WORKS AND HIS WORDS AND OF COURSE, PUTTING THE TWO TOGETHER SEEING HIS MESSIAHSHIP FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, THE MESSIAHSHIP OF COMPASSION, THE MESSIAHSHIP OF SALVATION OF THE WORLD, DEFINITIVE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.>>Doug: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHEN YOU SAY, OH, IT’S GREAT THAT JESUS DEFEATED SATE SAN. BUT HE’S GOD AND WAS THAT REALLY A BIG DEAL FOR HIM TO ACCOMPLISH.>>Father: WELL IT DOES, FIRST THING, TWO EFFECTS, HE’S IN THE HUMAN NATURE. AND FOR ME, THAT WAS ALWAYS KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, AS SEMINARIAN. I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, GEE, IF YOU EVER WANTED TO JUST COMPLETELY CONFUT AND REFUTE CALVIN, WHAT WOULD YOU DO. POINT TO THE DESERT. YOU KNOW, IF HUMAN NATURE IS COMPLETELY DEPRAVED AND JESUS IS TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN, THEN TRUE MAN BASICALLY DEFEATED SATAN. AND ALL OF HUMAN NATURE IS REDEEMED AT THAT POINT. WE CANNOT BE COMPLETELY DETRDEPRAVEDIN OUR NATURE. JESUS HAS REDEEMED THAT NATURE. AND OF COURSE, HE, IN HIS HUMAN NATURE DOES NOT FALL FOR THE SIN OF SATAN, HE’S A DIVINE PERSON. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE BRINGS THE WHOLE OF HUMAN NATURE RIGHT UP TO THE FULLNESS OF WHAT IT CAN BE. WHICH OF COURSE IS TO BE ABLE TO RESIST SATAN AND OF COURSE, HE REINFORCES THAT TO ENABLE US TO DO THAT. AND WE’RE NOT COMPLETELY DEPRAVED. HUMAN NATURE IS BROUGHT TO KIND OF A RESCUE FROM FORMER DEPRAVITY.>>Doug: BUT IT’S STILL DAMAGED.>>Father: IT’S STILL DAMAGED, CONCUPISCENCE IS STILL WITH US. BUT BASICALLY, SATAN NEED NOT HAVE THE LAST WORD. IF WE CAN COOPERATE AND MAYBE EVEN, IF WE HAVE TO LEARN OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, RIGHT, BUT IF WE CAN COOPERATE, VERY DEFINITELY, THE GRACE OF GOD IS THERE FOR US AND SLOWLY BUT SURELY, WE CAN BEGIN, LIKE, THE WAY OF PERFECTION, LIKE, ST. TERESA OF AVILA, SURELY AND SURELY IN — SLOWLY AND SURELY IN STAGES WE CAN PROGRESS INCH BY INCH, BY OVERCOMING SATAN OURSELVES TO, A CERTAIN STEBT. I — EXTENT. I ALWAYS THINK IT’S GOING TO BE A LOT OF TIME IN PURGATORY FOR ME. I’M JUST NOT THAT QUICK. BUT I’M TRYING.>>Doug: WELL, I THINK YOU ARE HELPING A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND THAT’S W WHAT MATTERS.>>NOW, THE NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FATHER, AFTER THE RESURRECTION, JESUS INVITES THOMAS TO TOUCH HIM BY PLACING HIS FINGERS IN THE NAIL HOLES AND HIS HAND INTO HIS SIDE. YET WHEN MARY MAGDALENE TRIED TO HOLD HIM, HE SAID “DO NOT HOLD ON TO ME, FOR I HAVE NOT YET RETURNED TO THE FATHER.” WHAT IS THE REASON FOR JESUS’ DIFFERENT REACTION TO MARY MAGDALENE? GLORIA, HARTSELLE, ALABAMA.>>Father: THAT’S GOOD, GLORIA. I THINKING, AND THIS IS MY OWN INTERPRETATION BECAUSE IT’S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT PRECISELY THAT. BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, BOTH OF THESE ACCOUNTS HAPPEN IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. YOU KNOW, MARY IS PROBABLY TRYING TO HOLD ON TO HIM, JUST STAY HERE. AND JESUS IS, YOU KNOW, HEY, IT’S NOT THAT HER TOUCHING HIM IS NOT A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS, I THINKING, MARY IS, JUST, SHE’S GOING AFTER HIM TO SAY, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO STAY HERE. I MISSED YOU. AND HE GOES, I CAN’T. I HAVE TO BE ON MY WAY, I HAVE TO GO TO MY FATHER, YOUR FATHER AND I HAVE TO APPEAR TO THE DISCIPLES. HE’S JUST SAYING, I CANNOT BE WITH YOU JUST AS MUCH AS I WANT TO BE WITH YOU, I CAN’T BE WITH YOU. IT’S THE IDEA OF GRASPING ON AND HOLDING ON TO HIM WHERE HE IS. AND JESUS HAS SOME THINGS THAT HE HAS TO DO. SO, THAT’S THE FIRST THING. AND THE SECOND THING, OF COURSE, WITH THOMAS, JESUS HAS NOTHING AGAINST MARY TOUCHING HIM, SHE JUST CAN’T KEEP HOLDING ON TO HIM. THAT’S THE PROBLEM. WHEREAS, WITH THOMAS, THE PROBLEM HAS DOUBTED AND SAID THIS HIMSELF PROPHETICALLY, NOT UNTIL I PUT MY FINGERS INTO THE NAIL PRINTS IN HIS HANDS, THAT’S WHEN I’LL BELIEVE. WELL, JESUS SAYS, GO AHEAD. SO, HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH BEING TOUCHED. SO, HE JUST SAYS, GO AHEAD. AND PUT YOUR FINGER RIGHT IN THERE IF THAT’S WHAT YOU NEED. AND OF COURSE, THOMAS DOESN’T NEED IT, HE COMES OUT WITH THE GREAT STATEMENT [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] THE LORD OF ME, THE GOD OF ME! WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREATEST CONFESSIONAL STATEMENTS IN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE.>>Doug: EXACTLY. EXACTLY. HERE’S ANOTHER QUESTION. FATHER SPITZER, IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THERE ARE MANY REFERENCES TO FEARING THE LORD. YET JESUS SAYS TO LOVE GOD AND OUR NEIGHBORS. THOUGH I SOMEWHAT UNDERSTAND THE OLD TESTAMENT AUTHORS’ FEAR OF GOD, AS A 21ST CENTURY MAN LIVING IN AMERICA, I AM THANKFUL AND LOVE GOD FOR HIS GOODNESS. HOW THEN DO YOU FEAR AND LOVE GOD? MIKE, IN COLORADO.>>Doug: HEY, MIKE, THAT’S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. TWO THINGS TO THINK ABOUT AS YOU LOOK AT THAT WORD, FEAR, IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. FIRST OF ALL, THERE’S AN UNHEALTHY FEAR WHERE YOU ARE KIND OF COWERING AND WANTING TO RUN. AND JESUS, AT ONE POINT, HE SAYS, THAT KIND OF FEAR IS NOT REALLY HELPFUL. REMEMBER WHEN HE TELLS THE SYNAGOGUE OFFICIAL WHOSE DAUGHTER IS, YOU KNOW, HAS DIED. FEAR IS USELESS. WHAT IS NEEDED IS TRUST. AND HE CONSTANTLY IS TELLING HIS DISCIPLES, DO NOT FEAR. DO NOT FEAR. TRUST IN THE LORD. SO, THE FIRST THING TO NOTICE IS THAT THERE’S AN UNHEALTHY FEAR, YOU ARE RIGHT, MIKE, THAT’S NOT THE KIND OF FEAR YOU WANT. I HATE TO SAY THIS. BUT THERE ARE PROBABLY AT LEAST 12 WORDS FOR FEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. AND MANY OF THEM, RIGHT, THESE ARE HEBREW WORDS AND TRANSLATED BY OUR ENGLISH WORD FEAR. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT, THERE’S THE FEAR THAT IS GROVELING AND COWERING AND SCARED TO DEATH AND WANTING TO RUN. BUT SOMETIMES THAT’S APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU ARE FEARING THE DEVIL OR SOMETIMES THAT’S APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU ARE FEARING A MORTAL ENEMY WHO COULD REALLY HARM YOUR SOUL OR SOMETHING. BUT NORMALLY, FOR JESUS, THAT’S NOT WHAT HE’S ASKING OF US. SO, THERE’S A WHOLE OTHER RANGE OF FEAR. FEAR CAN ALSO BE TRANSLATED AS KIND OF A CREATURAL RESPECT. SO, THAT’S ANOTHER KIND OF FEAR. AND THAT’S VERY DIFFERENT FROM, LIKE, PLEASE DON’T BEAT ME UP AGAIN. THAT’S NOT THE KIND OF FEAR THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT IS REFERRING TO. SO, YOU GOT TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW HEBREW AND HIT THE SEPTEMBER GENTA AND SEE WHICH WORD IS BEING USED TO TRANSLATE FROM THE HEBREW SO YOU GET A LITTLE NUANCE. MOST OF THE TIME, IT’S A CREATURALLY RESPECT. I KNOW YOUR GOD, I KNOW I’M A CREATURE AND I RESPECT YOU. THAT’S A KIND OF RESPECT, SOMETIMES AND OFTENTIMES TRANSLATED AS FEAR. BUT THINK A BETTER TRANSLATION FOR THAT PARTICULAR WORD IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE RESPECT OF A CREATURE TOWARD A GOD WHO IS DEFINITELY OVERWHELMING AND ABOVE YOU. THEN THERE’S EVEN ANOTHER WORD FOR FEAR WHICH OFTENTIMES I THINKING IS BETTER TRANSLATED AS A-H, AS A CREATURE, YOU ARE NOT JUST RESPECTING GOD BECAUSE YOU KNOW HE’S ABOVE YOU, OVERWHELMING, BUT HE’S STILL INVITING YOU AND INVITES YOU INTO HIS COMPANY. BUT HE’S STILL, LIKE, WHOA. BUT WITH THE A-H, YOU ARE ALMOST STARTLED TO THE POINT OF JUST SHOCKINGLY IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. AND YOU FEEL OVERWHELMED BY HIS GODLINESS, OVERWHELMED BY HIS MAJESTY, BEAUTY AND THE GERMANS GO [FOREIGN WORD] THE GLORY THAT’S JUST SO OVERWHELMING AND POWERFUL. AND OFTENTIMES, WITH THAT NOTION OF FEAR, COMES THE HEBREW, A [FOREIGN WORD] WHICH MEANS GLORY. ORIGINALLY THAT WORD MEANT HEAVINESS. AND HE’S SO OVERWHELMING THAT YOU FEEL THE SENSE OF GRAVITAS, AND SOMETIMES THAT’S WHAT WE CALL IT IN LATIN. IT’S A SENSE OF ESTEEM AND DIGNITY THAT’S SO POWERFUL. WE’RE ALMOST, LIKE, AWED IN HIS SIGHT AND MAKES US QUAKE JUST A LITTLE BIT, FEARFUL. MAYBE YOU HAD A TIME WHEN MAYBE YOU MET SOME PRESIDENT OR HEAD OF STATE OR SOMETHING AND JUST FOR A SECOND THERE, YOU FEEL LIKE — I KNOW WE DON’T DO THAT IN THE UNITED STATES. BUT SOMETIMES IN THE MIDDLE AGES OR SOMETHING, IN THE MIDST OF A KING, YOU MAY FEEL THAT SORT OF AN AWE. SO, FEAR CAN BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. AND I SAY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME, IT’S NOT GROVELING OR COWERING BEFORE SOMEBODY YOU DON’T TRUST. IT’S NOT, LIKE, DON’T BEAT ME UP AGAIN. IT’S NOT THAT KIND OF FEAR. YOU ARE RIGHT, MICHAEL, JESUS ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES NOT TO HAVE THAT KIND OF FEAR. ALTERNATIVELY THOUGH, HE DOES ENCOURAGE US TO HAVE THAT RESPECTFUL FEAR OR AWE, OF A CREATURE OR JUST THAT FULL AWE OF BEING IN MAJESTY AND GLORY AND OVERWHELMING MYSTERY AND POWER OF GOD. THAT’S MORE OF THE FEAR THAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.>>WE’RE NOT GOING TO GET HIT WITH A LIGHTED — LIGHTNING BOTH. AND NOT THAT THE LAWS ARE LAID OUT FOR THE LORD THE ONES THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW.>>DEAR FATHER SPITZER, WHEN JESUS COMES AT THE FINAL JUDGMENT, SOME PEOPLE DIED AND RECEIVE THEIR OWN PARTICULAR JUDGMENT AND OTHERS ARE STILL ALIVE. HOW WELL DO THOSE PEOPLE STILL LIVING RECEIVE THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT WHEN JESUS IS HERE FOR THE FINAL JUDGMENT. THIS IS JIM FROM GROVE CITY, OHIO.>>Father: BELIEVE ME, FATHER, THIS CAN BE DONE BY GOD. ALL AT ONCE, HE CAN GIVE A PARTICULAR JUDGMENT TO A MILLION, TRILLION PEOPLE THERE. NOT A RESTRICTED ACT THERE. HE CAN MAKE A PARTICULAR JUDGMENT FOR ALL OF US IN ONE FELL SWOOP, SIMULTANEOUSLY.>>Doug: ANOTHER QUESTION AS WE ARE GOING TO HEAD TOWARD THE BREAK HERE. DEAR FR. SPITZER, I AM GRATEFUL FOR YOUR EXPLANATION OF THE WAY THAT SOULS GO TO HELL. YOU EXPLAINED THAT GOD DOES NOT SEND SOULS TO HELL, BUT RATHER, THAT THEY CHOOSE HELL BECAUSE OF THEIR EGO. GROWING UP, I WAS TAUGHT THAT IF A PERSON DIES WITH JUST ONE UNCONFESSED MORTAL SIN ON HIS SOUL HE WILL GO DIRECTLY TO HELL. THIS DOESN’T SEEM TO FIT AT ALL WITH YOUR EXPLANATION OF HOW SOULS GO TO HELL. TIFFANY>>Father: WELL, TIFFANY, A MORTAL SIN, AS WE’VE TALKED ABOUT IT ON MANY OCCASIONS, IT REQUIRES THREE THINGS, THREE CRITERIA. FIRST OF ALL, IT HAS TO BE GRAVE MATTER AND HAS TO BE A SERIOUSLY OBJECTIVELY WRONG ACT. THE SECOND THING IS, IT REQUIRES SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE. NOW, IN MOST CASES, PEOPLE KNOW SOMETHING IS A SIN AND SO, THEY ARE NOT SORT OF QUESTIONING IT. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO GO, OH, WELL, IS THAT A MORTAL SIN, NOT A MORTAL SIN, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. WELL, THAT’S, MAYBE THAT DOESN’T EVEN REALLY MEET THE CRITERIA OF SUFFICIENT REFLECTION OR KNOWLEDGE. BUT THEN, IT’S THE THIRD CRITERION WHICH IS THE DIFFICULTY. AND THE THIRD CRITERION IS THE DIFFICULTY, THE FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL. THIS IS WHERE HERE YOU GET INTO THE, IS THERE A FREE QUESTIONEDMENT TO THE FREE USE OF THE WILL. AND THERE ARE LITERALLY DOZENS OF IMPEDIMENTS. AND OBVIOUSLY, THE IMPEDIMENT OF SOMEBODY CAN BE EXTERNALLY FORCING YOU TO DO SOMETHING AND THERE’S ALL KIND OF ETERNAL IMPEDIMENTS AND HAVING AN IMPEDIMENT TO FREE WILL AND YOU GET INTO A TERRIBLE HABIT. AND ADDICTIONS TO IMPEDIMENT OF FREE WILL. AND YOU GET ADDICTED AND IT’S STUFF TO SAY, ARE YOU REALLY COMMITTING A MORTAL SIN, RIGHT. ET CETERA. ET CETERA. AND ALSO, YOU CAN HAVE, PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, LIKE, IF YOU HAVE AN OBSESSIVE C COMPULSIVE DISORDER, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY RESPONSIBLE. THEY HAVE IMPEDIMENTS TO THE FREE USE OF THEIR WILL. AND OBVIOUSLY, SERIOUS PERSONALITY DISORDERS, OBVIOUSLY PSYCHOSIS, SERIOUS NUEROSEES AND ET CETERA, ET CETERA, THESE THINGS INTERNALLY CAN DRIVE A PERSON TO THE BRINK. AND THEY CAN DO THINGS THAT YOU KNOW, AS PAUL WOULD SAY, TO MY TRUE SELF DOESN’T WANT TO DO. WE GO BACK TO THE WHOLE THICK OF ROMANS 7 — WHOLE THING OF ROMANS 7, WHY DO I DO WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO DO. I DO NOT DOOD THE GOOD THAT I WANT TO DO AND I DO THE EVIL I WOULD NOT DO. AND THEN, HE’S REFLECTING ON THIS. AND HE SAYS, WELL, IF I AM DOING THE EVIL THAT I DON’T WANT TO DO, THEN THAT CAN’T BE MY TRUE SELF THAT’S DOING IT, RIGHT? AND HE’S TRYING TO GO THROUGH THIS IN ROMANS 7 AND HE SAYS, FINALLY, LIKE, WELL, IT COULDN’T BE FULLY ME THAT’S DOING THIS. BECAUSE I AM DOING AN EVIL BUT I DON’T WANT TO DO THE EVIL THAT I’M DOING. SO, YOU KNOW, IT’S WHAT HE CALLS HIS FLESH WORKING THROUGH HIM. AND HE SAYS, OH, THANKS BE TO GOD FOR CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD WHO WILL RESCUE ME FROM THIS WRETCHED BODY. FROM THIS WRETCHED FLESH THANKS BE TO GOD, OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS WHO HAS DONE IT. AND WHEN YOU KIND OF GO THROUGH, IS CHOICE ALWAYS A PART OF WHAT WE CALL MORTAL SIN. AND THE ANSWER IS, YES, YES, AND YES. AND YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO CHOOSE THIS. YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE IT FREELY. IT’S A GOOD POINT, TIFFANY, BUT I SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY CAPABLE OF FULLY CHOOSING A MORTAL SIN, YOU SHOULD TAKE THE CLUE FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. BOY, IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT IN FULL FREEDOM, THEN BEWARE OF WHAT YOU MIGHT CHOOSE TO DO IN THE AFTER LIFE. THAT’S WHERE WE ARE HERE, WHY WE NEED THE GRACE AND THE ABSOLUTION OF CONFESSION.>>Doug: AND WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK WITH THAT POINT MADE. WE’RE HERE ON “FR. SPITZER’S UNIVERSE” AND WE’RE HERE ON FATHER SPITZER’S UNIVERSE, STAY WITH US. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK. [MUSIC] [MUSIC]>>AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STAYING WITH US HERE IN FATHER SPITZER’S UNIVERSE. AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON WHERE WE CAN BE FOUND EACH WEEK AT THIS TIME. ALSO CHECK OUR EWTN SCHEDULE FOR THE OTHER TIMES THE SHOW HAS RE-AIRED AS WELL AS OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AND ALSO LOOK FOR THE PODCASTS AS WELL. WE GOT A LOT OF PODCASTS AVAILABLE THROUGH EWTN. WE TURN AGAIN TO FATHER SPITZER WITH ONE LAST QUESTION BEFORE WE GET INTO THE LAST SECTION OF THE SHOW. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I DON’T HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF PURGATORY. I DO PRAY FOR ALL THE SOULS WHO HAVE DEPARTED THROUGH THE AGES. I UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO BE PURIFIED IN ORDER TO SEE FATHER GOD. IS THERE REFERENCE TO PURGATORY IN THE BIBLE? CATHY>>Father: THERE IS A REFERENCE AND ONE IS CORINTHIANS 2:3, THE REFERENCE OF THE STRAW, GOLD IS BURNED AWAY AND THE — I MEAN, THE GOLD AND SILVER REMAIN. AND IT’S A REFERENCE THAT ST. AUGUSTINE USED. IT WAS A GOOD NOTION OF THE GROUND OF PURGATORY. THERE’S ANOTHER REALLY POIGNANT REFERENCE WHERE JESUS TALKS ABOUT THE SIN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW. REMEMBER, HE SAYS THAT THE SIN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN IN THIS LIFE OR THE NEXT. AND YOU THINK, YOU MEAN, THERE’S FORGIVENESS IN THE NEXT LIFE. AND THE ANSWER IS, WELL, I GUESS SO BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT HE JUST BASICALLY SAID. AND THE CHURCH ALWAYS TERMED THAT IN TERMS OF FORGIVENESS BUT NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THE IDEA OF PURIFICATION IN THE NEXT LIFE. AND THEN, IN 2 TIMOTHY, WE HAVE CERTAINLY THAT REFERENCE THAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT PRAYING FOR A PARTICULAR PERSON, I FORGET WHO THAT IS IN 2 TIMOTHY WHERE HE IS ACTUALLY SAYING, PLEASE, PRAY FOR THIS PERSON. AND I DO PRAY FOR THIS PERSON. SO, HE IS ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO IS DECEASED AND HE’S PRAYING THAT THE LORD WILL TAKE HIM. WE ALSO HAVE IN MACCABEES, A DIRECT REFERENCE TO 2 MACCABEES TO THE, YOU KNOW, ACTUAL PRAYING FOR THE DEAD ALL THOSE WHO HAD DECEASED PLUS TAKING UP A PURCHASES, YOU KNOW, SOME FUNDS TO — PURS, YOU KNOW, TAKING UP FUNDS TO PRAY FOR ALL OF THESE PEOPLE. AND ALL OF THESE AREAS WERE, THESE ARE FOUR PASSAGES.>>Doug: IF THEY WERE IN HEAVEN, THEY DON’T NEED ANYBODY’S PRAYERS. MAYBE SOME REASON.>>Father: EXACTLY. AND OH, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN GET ALL OF THOSE PASSAGES, IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET THERE, JUST GO TO WHATEVER SEARCH ENGINE, GOOGLE, WHATEVER, PURGATORY, CATECHISM, CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND THE WHOLE CATECHISM IS RIGHT THERE. THE SEARCH ENGINE BRINGS YOU RIGHT TO THAT REFERENCE ON THAT DEFINITION OF PURGATORY. AND BY THE WAY, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT DEFINITION OF PURGATORY, TO ACTUALLY BE PURIFIED SO YOU CAN GET INTO HEAVEN AND BE WITH THE LORD AND THE BLESSED. IT’S ALL RIGHT THERE. AND THOSE SCRIPTURE REFERENCES, ARE ALSO PROVIDED IN THE EXPLANATION.>>AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE CHURCH HAS BEEN ACCUSED OVER THE YEARS, YOU KNOW, NO, SIR MERCIFUL. BUT THE PRESENT HOLY FATHER TALKS ABOUT MERCY ALL THE TIME. BUT PURGATORY IS A WONDERFUL MERCIFUL OPPORTUNITY, IN A SENSE, THERE FOR ONE WHO IS NOT PERFECT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, TO STILL HAVE THAT ABILITY TO CHOOSE BASICALLY TO BE ABLE TO SPEND ETERNITY WITH GOD.>>Father: DOUG, I SO AGREE WITH YOU. I CAN’T TELL YOU WHAT A RELIEF IT IS TO HAVE THAT DOCTRINE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR ME. I MEAN, I JUST, I LOOK AT MY LIFE AND I GO, OH MY GOSH, I AM SO FAR FROM PERFECT, DO I HAVE A REAL GENUINE ACT OF COMPASSION SOMETIMES. AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER I DO, SOMETIMES I HAVE OUTBURSTS OF IMPATIENCE AND I SEEM TO MAKE SUCH LITTLE PROGRESS SOMETIMES. AND I THINKING TO MYSELF, WELL, WILL IT EVER CHANGE. AND IF I HAD TO SIT THERE AND LOOK AT MY IMPENDING DEATH IN TERMS OF REACHING PERFECTION BEFORE I DIE SO THAT MY HEART WAS REALLY TRANSFORMED IN THE IMAGE OF CHRIST, I WOULD BE AN UTTER TERROR. BUT FOR ME, HAVING PURGATORY THERE WHERE I CAN JUST THROW YSELF UPON THE MERCY OF GOD, HE CAN SEE THAT I’VE BEEN TRYING, TRYING TO GET TO RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST, TRYING MY BEST FOR CONFESSION, TRYING TO INTEGRATE HIS PRECEPTS IN MY VERY IMPERFECT LIFE. I CAN JUST SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT IF I DON’T MAKE IT IN THIS LIFE TO GET TO THAT PERFECTION, BOY, IN THE NEXT LIFE, THE LORD IS GOING TO HELP ME IN MY FREEDOM TO CHOOSE THAT LOVE TO DEVELOP THAT COMPASSION, TO BE PURIFIED SO THAT I MIGHT ENTER INTO THE FULLNESS OF YOU KNOW, HIS PARADISE. AND SO, I HAVE TO TELL, YOU KNOW, I’M NOT GOING TO BE ONE OF THE CANONIZED SAINTS, LET ME TELL YOU. I’LL BE JUST ONE OF THOSE JOES THAT NEEDS A GOOD AMOUNT OF TIME THERE. BUT YOU KNOW, I THINKING THAT THAT PURIFICATION IS A PROCESS THAT’S BECAUSE OF THE PURE MERCY OF GOD AS YOU PUT IT, DOUG. AND I’M SO GRATEFUL FOR IT.>>Doug: I KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS, THAT THE AUTHOR, SUSAN TASSONE POINTED OUT, PRAYING FOR YOUR RELATIVES IN PURGATORY, IN A SENSE, HAVING THAT CONNECTION WITH THEM AND FEELING LIKE YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING FOR THEM. AND AT THE SAME TIME, IT REMINDS YOU OF THE ETERNAL ASPECT OF YOUR OWN LIFE.>>NO. THAT’S ABSOLUTELY TRUE. EVERY SINGLE MORNING, IN MY MORNING OFFERING, I PRAY FOR ALL OF THE SOULS IN PURGATORY AND I LIST MY, YOU KNOW, ALL OF MY CLOSE FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE PASSED ON TO THE LORD, IN FAITH, AND I’M SURE, MAYBE THEY ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN BUT I DON’T TAKE ANY CHANCES. IT’S ALWAYS FOR THE PRAYER.>>WELL, GOD DOESN’T WASTE YOUR PRAYER, RIGHT?>>ABSOLUTELY! APPLY IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE.>>Doug: SOME OTHER RELATIVE OF YOURS IS WANDERING AROUND.>>Father: THAT’S RIGHT.>>Doug: LET’S TALK ABOUT THE SACRED EUCHARISTIC LITURGY, DEVELOPMENT OF THE FIVE MAJOR PARTS AFTER THE FOURTH CENTURY. AND WE GOT INTO THIS WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL CONSECRATION. AND YOU MENTIONED THE FACT THAT THE EARLY CHURCH DID NOT MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WORDS, AND YOU LISTED WERE MORE ORIGINAL BUT COMBINED THE TWO VERSIONS INTO THE EUCHARISTIC WORDS THAT WE USE TODAY, POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY. TALK ABOUT THE TWO STATEMENTS AND HOW THEY PUT THAT TOGETHER.>>Father: THAT’S RIGHT. SO, NOW TODAY, SCHOLARS REALLY THINK THAT THE MARK-MATTHEW WAS THE ORIGINAL. THAT THE LUKE-PAUL WAS THE ONE THAT WAS ACTUALLY USED DURING THE MASS, DURING THE LITURGY. SO, IT HAS THE “YOU” IN IT. AND WHEN THE CHURCHED LOOKED AT IT ORIGINALLY, THE CHURCH SAID, LOOK, WE’RE NOT TAKING ANY CHANCES WHICH ONE IS THE MORE ORIGINAL. SO, WHEN THEY ACTUALLY TURNED IT INTO A SPECIFIC FORMULA, PROBABLY SOMETIME IN THE LATE FIRST CENTURY, AND WHAT I MEAN BY FORMULA, IT IS STANDARDIZED FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH. WHEN THEY TURN IT INTO A STANDARDIZED FORMULA TO BE USED ACROSS THE CHURCH, THEY LOOKED AT THE MATTHEW-MARK, LUKE-PAUL VERSION AND THEY SIMPLY COMBINED THEM. SO, THEY GOT, THIS IS POURED OUT FOR YOU. RIGHT? THERE’S LUKE-PAUL. AND FOR MANY, THERE’S MARK-MATTHEW. SO THEY JUST KEPT GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE THING AND YOU CAN SEE THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD AND THEY ARE TAKING THE LOOP THERE, AND SO FORTH AND SO ON AND BRINGING BOTH ELEMENTS TOGETHER. YOU NOTICE, THEY DON’T LEAVE OUT A THING. BOTH VERSIONS ARE COMPLETELY THERE. AND IT’S IN ONE SMOOTH TEXT SO THAT YOU REALLY DON’T NOTICE. I MEAN, YOU SAY, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE. THIS DOESN’T CORRESPOND EXACTLY TO THE MARK-MATTHEW VERSION. THAT’S RIGHT. BECAUSE THERE’S LUKE-PAUL WORDS ADDED IN THERE. HEY, WAIT A MINUTE! THIS DOESN’T CORRESPOND EXACTLY TO THE LUKE-PAUL VERSION BECAUSE THERE’S EXTRA WORDS IN THERE. THAT’S RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY HAVE WORDS OF MARK-MATTHEW IN THERE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT BOTH VERSION INS THERE, YOU SEE THE INGENIOUS WAY THAT THE CHURCH COMBINED BOTH VERSIONS SO THAT BOTH WORD AND EVERY CONCEPT IS COMBINED FROM BOTH VERSIONS OF THE MARK-MATTHEW TEXT WHICH WAS PROBABLY THE ORIGINAL. AND THE LITURGICAL TEXT, YOU, ET CETERA, WITH THE COVENANT, THAT COMES FROM LUKE-PAUL.>>Doug: RIGHT. AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MY IDEA, THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AND ALSO, THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD, AND THE DIFFERENCE IS THERE. AND ONE OF THE POINTS THAT YOU MAKE, TOO, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IS THAT THE MARK-MATTHEW WHICH YOU SAY WOULD BE THE EARLIER ONE IS MORE EXPLICIT ABOUT TRANSUBSTANTIATION.>>Father: WELL, IT’S KIND OF INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, IF THAT’S THE ORIGINAL TEXT AND PROBABLY IS THE ORIGINAL TEXT WITH JESUS. IT’S INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE WORDS, TAKE, EAT, THIS IS MY BODY, RIGHT? AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, FOR YOU. THIS IS. SO, NOW IN JESUS’ ARAMAIC, IT’S A CONTINUATION OF THE IS. IT ESSENTIALLY MEANS, RIGHT NOW. THIS IS MY BODY FOR YOU. SO, IT’S REALLY INTERESTING AND GET THAT SENSE OF TRANS SUB STAN TRANSUBSTANTIATION THAT CALVARY IS BROUGHT INTO THE PRESENT MOMENT IN THE FUTURE, BAMMO, RIGHT INTO THE ACTUAL SPECIES OF THE BREAD AND AS WELL AS INTO THE WINE WHICH OF COURSE BECAUSE HIS BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF CALVARY IS BROUGHT IN AT THAT MOMENT.>>Doug: RIGHT. AND AT THAT MOMENT, PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT IT AND COMES UP. POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY VERSUS ALL. THIS HAS BEEN SOMETIMES A DISCUSSION ABOUT PEOPLE USING ALL VERSES, MANY. WHAT’S YOUR TAKE?>>WELL, THE CHURCH, VATICAN II, THE CHURCH CHANGED IT TO ALL. BUT IT HAD A VERY GOOD REASON FOR DOING IT. AND THAT’S BECAUSE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TEXT OF MARK-MATTHEW. YOU SEE THAT IT SAYS, THE MANY. AND THAT’S A VERY BIZARRE EXPRESSION. IN GREEK, IT’S [FOREIGN WORDS] IN THE SCRIPTURE TEXT. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THAT AND YOU GO, THE MANY. DOES THAT EVER OCCUR IN OTHER GREEK TEXTS? NO IT DOESN’T. SO YOU GO, WHAT IN THE WORLD COULD THAT BE. I MEAN, IT’S JUST A BIZARRE EXPRESSION. IT JUST NEVER HAPPENS. AND YOU SAY, WHAT DOES IT REFER TO. AND THAT IS VERY, VERY PROBABLY A SEMITISM. AND WHAT A SEMITISM MEANS IS, IT’S A LITERAL GREEK TRANSLATION OF JESUS’ ARAMAIC. SO, WHEN JESUS IS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, SAYING [FOREIGN WORDS] OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, YOU GO, WELL, WHAT’S THAT ALL ABOUT. WELL, YOU KNOW, IN HEBREW YOU DON’T HAVE A SEPARATE WORD FOR MANY AND FOR ALL. IT’S THE SAME WORD CALLED REHABILITATIONIM — RABIM. AND IF YOU PUT A DEFINITE ARTICLE IN FRONT OF RABIM, THEN IT TURNS INTO ALL. BUT IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE DEFINITE ARTICLE IN FRONT OF RABIM THEN IT’S MANY. SO, IF YOU KNOW HEBREW AND YOU LOOK AT THAT, AND YOU GO, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, THE D DEFINITE ARTICLE IS IN FRONT OF RABIM AND THAT REFERS TO ALL. WHEN YOU SEE THE MARK-MATTHEW TEXT AND POURED OUT FOR THE MANY, THE MANY NEVER OCCURS. IT’S JUST NOT A GREEK EXPRESSION AT ALL. YOU GO, OKAY, THIS IS PROBABLY A SEMITISM AND REFERS TO THE DEFINITE ARTICLE IN FRONT OF RABIM WHICH REFERS TO ALL AND JESUS IN ARAMAIC AND HE COULD HAVE USED HEBREW AT THE LAST SUPPER, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT WAS SACRED WORDS. YOU KNOW, PROBABLY MEANS ALL. SO, THE CHURCH DID HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR DOING THAT. I KNOW THAT IT WOULD SWITCH BACK TO MANY BECAUSE IT MAKES THE DEFINITE ARTICLE IN FRONT OF [FOREIGN WORD] WHICH MAKES IT VERY UNUSUAL. ANYWAY, THERE IT IS.>>Doug: I THINKS SOMETIMES, AND I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE CERTAIN PEOPLE SAY, WELL, WHEN IT SAYS THE MANY, VERSUS ALL, THE MANY VERSUS NON BELIEVERS. THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT OUR LORD WANTS EVERYBODY TO BE SAVED. SO WHY DOESN’T OUR LORD HAVE IT AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY. DOESN’T MEAN THAT EVERYBODY TAKES ADVANTAGE OF IT. IT’S JUST AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY.>>Father: THAT’S CORRECT. THAT’S CORRECT. AND THINK THAT’S HONESTLY THE WAY HE INTENDED IT. I’VE HEARD SO MANY PASSAGES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ABOUT JESUS COMING FOR EVERYBODY. IN FACT, IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT JESUS’ FINAL WORDS ON THE CROSS, REMEMBER, WHEN HE SAYS, MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORE TAKEN — FORSAKEN ME. AND THE FIRST WORD OF THE PSALM REFERS TO THE WHOLE PSALM. SO, THAT’S REFERRING TO PSALM 22. IN FACT, HE SAYS, IN ARAMAIC, BUT HE SAYS IT WITH THE NORTHERN GALILEAN DIALECT. SO [FOREIGN WORDS] AND YOU LOOK AT THAT AND YOU GO [FOREIGN WORD] THAT’S NOT HEBREW. IT’S THIS WAY. AND MATTHEW CORRECTS IT TO THE PROPER HEBREW. BUT MARK, GETTING THE WORDS FROM PETER. REMEMBER, MARK IS THE DESCRIBE FOR PETER. PETER IS THE ONE THAT HEARS IT OR MAYBE JOHN HEARD IT AND PETER, YOU KNOW, TOOK IT IN. AND IT WAS THIS NORTHERN GALILEAN DIALECT. SO, WHEN HE SAYS THAT IN ARAMAIC, IT’S THE BEGINNING OF PSALM 22. BUT AS YOU READ THROUGH THE WHOLE OF PSALM 22, THIS IS NOT WHERE HE FEELS ABANDONED OR FORSAKEN AT ALL. IT STARTS OFF WITH A TRADITIONAL LAMENTATION, MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME. AND THE PSALMIST GOES THROUGH AND SAYS, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU AR DOING THIS FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD, OF THE SINNERS. AND I KNOW. I TOTALLY TRUST IN YOU. IT’S NOT A PSALM OF ABANDONMENT, IT’S THE PSALM OF TRUST. FIRST LINE OF PSALM 22, IT’S NOT JUST JESUS MAKING A RANDOM CRY. IT’S DEFINITELY REFERRING TO THE PSALM THAT’S HOW THE HEBREWS, JURK PEOPLE — JEWISH PEOPLE I MEAN, IN THE FIRST CENTURY. AND HAS HOW YOU HEAR IT IN THE DIALECT THAT’S JUST HOW JESUS LEARNED IT WHEN HE WAS A LITTLE KID FROM HIS MOTHER IN NAZARETH. YOU CAN BE SURE OF THAT. AND SO, YOU HAVE TO READ THROUGH THE WHOLE PSALM TO SEE WHAT THE MEANING OF THOSE WORDS WERE. WELL, ANYWAY, AS YOU GO THROUGH THAT PSALM, THE SECOND PART AFTER IT’S AN EXCLAMATION OF TRUST, THE SECOND PART OF THE TRUST OF THE PSALM GIVES A VIVID DESCRIPTION OF WHAT JESUS, YOU KNOW, IS SUFFERING. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE HE IS SUFFERING ALL OF THESE THINGS ON THE CROSS. AND YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS, IN THIS PSALM, THAT’S WRITTEN AT LEAST 600 YEARS. PROBABLY A THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE THE CRUCIFIXION THIS PSALM IS BEING WRITTEN. AND YOU LOOK AT IT, MY TONGUE IS CLINGING TO MY MOUTH, THEY ARE BEATING ME, INSULTING ME AND YOU GO THROUGH THIS AND LOOK AT IT AND YOU GO, GOTTA BE KIDDING ME. AND REMEMBER, THIS IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM IN PSALM 22. THEN, YOU LOOK AT THE END OF THE PSALM AND WHAT DO YOU SEE? IT’S FOR UNIVERSAL SALVATION SO THAT ALL PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE WOULD COME TO THE LORD. THAT ALL PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE INTO THE DUST, THAT MEANS INTO THE LAND OF SHEOL, THE RESTING PLACE OF THE DEAD. ALL OF THEM. ALL. ALL WILL BE RESCUED. SO, YOU LOOK AT THAT AND YOU GO, AH, UNIVERSE, AND SALVIFIC CONTINGENT. AND WHY DOES JESUS PICK THAT AS THE WORDS IN THE FINAL PSALM IF HE DIDN’T MEAN HIS UNIVERSAL SALVIFIC WILL. SO, ANYWAY, THIS IS, THINK THIS IS THE INTENT OF JESUS. I FRANKLY, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, ALL IS THE PROPER TRANSLATION AND OTHERWISE, I’M ABSOLUTELY FLUMMOXED BY [FOREIGN WORD] IT’S SUCH A BIZARRE THING. AND THE WORDS, TAKE A LOOK AT THE SEPTEMBER UGENT GREEK VERSION GO BACK TO ISAIAH 53:13, WELL, 53:12 OR 13 AND YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THAT REFERRING TO THE ALL. SO, I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU, I’M CONVINCED THAT IT WAS PROBABLY MEANT TO BE ALL. SEPTU GENT. YOU KNOW, I FOLLOW THE CHURCH, I’M NOT OMNISCIENT GUY. I MEAN, I CAN BARELY EAST COAST OUT THE THREE STOOGES. I AIN’T NO DUMMY!>>WELL, THE THREE SKOATION SECRETARY STOOGES SECT HERE LED BY CURLY. OKAY. YOU TALK ABOUT THE MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE VERSION. AND THE READER SAYS YOU MAY NOTICE THE EARLY CHURCH ADDED THE LUKE FORMULA, EVERLASTING. AND YOU SAY, WHY DID THEY BREAK FROM THE CAREFUL APPROACH IN THIS ONE CASE. YOU MADE THE POINT THAT THEY ARE VERY, VERY CAREFUL AND MAKING SURE TO TIE EVERYTHING BACK TO THE SCRIPTURE. WHAT WAS THE SOURCE OF WORDS EVERLASTING AND THE WORDS OF INSTITUTION. SO, WHAT WAS IT?>>Father: THIS GOES BACK TO THREE DIFFERENT WORDS CONCERNING THE NEW COVENANT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. BUT ESPECIALLY THAT PASSAGE FROM JEREMIAH THAT’S TALKING ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT. THERE’S AN EZEKIEL PASSAGE AS WELL. IN THAT PASSAGE, IT’S ALWAYS REFERRED TO AS THE FINAL AND EVERLASTING COVENANT. SO, THE CHURCH WANTED TO MAKE SURE, RIGHT, THAT YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAW THAT JESUS WAS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY OF JEREMIAH AND THIS WOULD BE THE FINAL COVENANT. REMEMBER, THERE’S THE FOUR COVENANTS THAT WE SEE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. WE HAVE THE COVENANT WITH ADAM, NOAH, ABRAHAM, AND THE COVENANT WITH MOSES. NOW, THESE — WELL, A COVENANT BY THE WAY IS A PACT OR A CONTRACT. SO, IT’S, LIKE, GOD MAKING AN AGREEMENT. BUT A HARD, SOLID AGREEMENT WITH HIS PEOPLE WHO, OF COURSE, ARE ALWAYS VIOLATING THINGS. AND OF COURSE, THEN THEY UNDO THE COVENANT BECAUSE THEY ARE VIOLATING THE COVENANT ALL THE TIME. SO, THIS TIME, THE COVENANT, WE’RE STILL GOING TO BE VIOLATORS, HEY, LOOK AROUND THE WORLD TODAY. ARE WE VIOLATING COVENANT? LIKE, THERE’S NO TOMORROW! BUT THIS COVENANT IS INVIOLABLE. IT’S A COVENANT THAT WILL NEVER BREAK UP, WILL NEVER BE RESCINDED BECAUSE OF OUR SIN. IT’S AN EVERLASTING COVENANT. AND WHEN JESUS, BY SEALING IT IN HIS OWN INFINITE BLOOD, RIGHT, IT’S NOT AN ANIMAL BLOOD SACRIFICE ANY MORE IN WHICH IT’S SEALED. IT’S SEALED IN THE BLOOD OF THE SON OF GOD. BECAUSE OF THAT, THERE’S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. THIS IS A PERMANENT COVENANT SEALED IN THE INFINITE LOVE, THE UNRESTRICTED LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST. HE GAVE HIMSELF TO US WITHOUT QUALIFICATION, WITHOUT CONDITION. OR AS WE SAY, UNRESTRICTEDLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY.>>Doug: WELL, VERY GOOD. WE’RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME. RATHER THAN GOING FURTHER AND TALKING ABOUT THIS AS WE MOVE FURTHER INTO THIS PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH AND THIS PARTICULAR SECTION, WE’LL ASK YOU TO GIVE US A BLESSING. AND AGAIN, MAYBE INCLUDE ALL OF THE PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM THE CORONAVIRUS WORLD-WIDE>>Father: OKAY. BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD’S BLESSING. MAY ALMIGHTY GOD BLESS YOU, SEND HIS HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON YOU, THE SPIRIT OF ENLIGHTENMENT, THE SPIRIT OF HEALING, THE SPIRIT DURING THIS LENTEN SEASON OF TRUE REGRET, REFORM FOR OUR SINFULNESS. AND A TRUE SPIRIT AND DESIRE TO MOVE EVER MORE CLOSELY INTO THE SANCTITY AND HOLINESS OF HIS LOVE. AND HEALING FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE SICK FROM THE CORONAVIRUS AND ALL OF THE VIRUSES OF THIS FLU SEASON. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN.>>Doug: THANK YOU, FATHER SPITZER FOR YOUR GREAT ANSWERS AND BLESSING AS WELL. AND WE’LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. DON’T FORGET FATHER SPITZER BOOKS AND THE WONDERFUL DVDS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE ewtnRC.com. ALSO, THROUGH crediblecatholic.com AND magiscenter.com. NEXT WEEK, WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE FIVE MAJOR PARTS OF THE MASS. WE GOT THROUGH HALFWAY ABOUT THAT, WITH THE LITURGY OF THE EUCHARIST. DON’T FORGET, BOOKMARK SUNDAY MORNING AT 9:30AM ET EAT, FAST, FEAST: HEAL YOUR BODY WHILE FEEDING YOUR SOUL, A CHRISTIAN GUIDE TO FASTING, BY JAY RICHARDS HE’S A HOST ON EWTN. CHECK IT OUT. VERY INTERESTING. LOTS OF PEOPLE TALKING AND THINKING ABOUT FASTING, ESPECIALLY THIS TIME OF YEAR AND THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF IT. WITH THAT, WE’LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME RIGHT HERE IN THE HEART OF FATHER SPITZER, AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. I’LL BE DIRECTING TRAFFIC. WE’LL SEE YOU THEN! [MUSIC]

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